Poverty breeds children -
Japan is in decline - trying to encourage folk to have more children
Not so sure about imposing restrictions on size of families in U.S.
Farmers had a lot of children to help with the work - those days are gone
My RC extended family are not in the child producing business - for them religion is not an item.
Muslims are having a lot of children - how is this problem addressed? Not easy.
Palestinians are out producing the Israelis which is a threat to democracy in Israel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donna Buell" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 8:11:55 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: Re: population
What problems do we have at the Mexican border -- other than Republicans afraid that new immigrants will be more likely vote for Democrats?
Women have been second class citizens (and less) for centuries. That's the real issue, I think. Women will limit children if they have choices and options. Educate women -- jail men who abuse them -- and we will go a long way towards affecting population.
Donna
On May 31, 2013, at 4:01 AM, gerald neff <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Thomas is right on population. In the US and other developed countries there is no reason why couples should NOT limit their families to two children. Religion must take a big part of the blame for the predicament the world is in. Look at Mexico and South America where Catholicism and poverty go hand in hand. With all the discussion about immigration to the US most of our problems start at the border of Mexico. Why don't we have any problems along the Canadian border? Population and Climate Change are so connected and no one wants to discuss either topic. Jerry
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Thomas Mathews, CIG <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Fri, 31 May 2013 00:02:34 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: population
>
> What to do about global warming? A good place to start is
> population--reduce the number of humans born each year. People should be screaming their
> lungs out about the damage that over-population is doing to the planet, but
> mostly we hear nothing. So I'm talking about it now.
>
> When my father was born, in 1911, global population was about 1.7 billion.
> Now it's 7 billion, and growing. Think about those numbers. Problems like
> global warming are much less serious if there are not so many people in the
> world.
>
> The Catholic church should promote the use of artificial methods of birth
> control, and the church should encourage couples to stop at two children.
> I'm an ardent defender of Nature, but natural birth control--the rhythm
> method, endorsed by the Vatican--isn't very effective.
>
> Barry and Paul discuss population on a Sierra Club list, below.
>
> While population control is a good place to start, we of course have to
> work on other issues as well, like stopping the Keystone pipeline. But the
> fact remains irreducible that a finite planet cannot support infinite growth.
>
> Tom
> [Acronym translations: EV=electric vehicle; RE=renewable energy;
> TOD=transit oriented development, i.e., housing and businesses built near mass
> transit, usually rail; ICE=internal combustion engine; VMT=vehicle miles
> traveled; TGV=French very high-speed train; SNCF=the French state-owned railroad
> company]
> ============================================================================
> =
> Barry,
>
> I started to get frustrated at your dissing of efficient EVs and RE, and
> was saying to myself that this is actually population you're talking about.
> Then you made that very point.
>
> Thank you. I felt better immediately.
>
> I endowed three vasectomy funds through Planned Parenthood offices in
> Eugene, OR, Pasadena and Los Angeles. I encourage those with money to
> contribute to do so. If you have the means, endow your own vasectomy fund with your
> local PP office. Tell them to call the LA or Lane County OR offices for how
> to structure it. It's money well spent since about $200-$400 will prevent
> potentially several unwanted pregnancies. So much of our problems would be
> easier to manage if there were fewer of us.
>
> Paul
>
> On May 30, 2013, at 7:47 PM, Schiller, Barry wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all who contributed to this interesting thread.
>>
>> I commend Alan for presenting a vision of how emphasizing energy
> efficient walkable transit rich communities can contribute to carbon emission
> reduction. As I see it, he is not suggesting mass transit only or not to work
> on renewables or better vehicles, but prioritizing the TOD concept as the
> best way to go to get meaningful results.
>>
>> What I think we should also like about Alan's vision is that it also
> better serves other environmental interests besides carbon reduction. For
> example, super efficient/clean personal vehicles encourage sprawl and the need
> to pave over green space for roads and parking, contribute to roadkill,
> wildlife habitat loss, accidents, make it harder to walk or bicycle on the
> roads about as much as ICE vehicles. And "renewable" energy has many
> problematic elements including placement in natural areas, transmission line
> issues, birdkill, neighborhood nuisances, aesthetic issues, and more. TOD
> intends to reduce energy and VMT demand which renewables/EVs do not do as much
> if at all. That is why I have also have advocated working on population
> growth reduction strategies too.
>>
>> As for our differences with France, I think they have going for their
> CO2 reduction strategy their use of nuclear power and lack of oil which
> incentivizes electric transport such as the trams, TGV, the power of the small
> farmers and their supporters who resist sprawl into farmland, a centralized
> government that can make and implement policy of their party has a majority
> in Parliament (except perhaps on the rare interludes of "cohabitation"
> when the President is of another party) including legislating very high fuel
> taxes, and the strong SNCF unions which were able to get subsidies and
> preserve a lot of services even in the lowest point of rail travel. Vive la
> SNCF!
>>
>> Barry Schiller, RI
>
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