Exactly as I see it! Probably happen in the next 15 years/ as an
obvious beginning, 25 years for sure. Sorry kids and grandkids, greed
for the few will continue until we........
Daryl
On Dec 10, 2010, at 9:46 AM, William Witt wrote:
> World-wide demand for petroleum is steadily increasing, most
> notably in the two most populous countries, India and China, while
> production increases cannot keep pace. Barring a global economic
> depression, these trends will continue. In consequence, baseline
> (not speculative) crude oil prices are reaching a new plateau in
> the $80/bbl range. Within a very few years, the steady base price
> will hit $100/bbl. The true economics of ethanol--no masking, no
> externalizing, of costs--will become sharply clearer. The big
> corporate interests (aka "persons" with unlimited "rights"
> according to the Roberts Gang of Five) will continue trying to
> brainwash us on the status quo. Unless we non-corporate, natural
> persons reestablish "Of...by...and for the People," as the central
> principle of governance, we are going to be trapped in a country
> hell-bent on waste and war... until it all collapses, and the rich
> retreat to their Swiss estates and their select US enclaves, where
> they'll be guarded by private armies...and the rest of us battle to
> survive.
>
> BW
>
> On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Donna Buell <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> Isn't this looking at ethanol in a vacuum?
>
> The issue with biofuels is rarely the carbon burned in the fuel.
> The issue with biofuels is the carbon emissions in the process of
> growing the feedstocks, in the conversion of our land from carbon
> sinks to carbon emitters, in the inappropriately located, poorly
> regulated or excessively large biofuels facilities, etc. We need
> to take a full life cycle view of bio-energy.
>
> And on the bigger scale: This isn't about ethanol v. crude for
> autos. This is about more of the same v. transitioning our energy
> to truly renewable. This is about refusing to upgrade our cars
> because we can claim to use "renewable" ethanol instead of making
> more efficient cars. This is about Big Ag and Big Oil vying for
> their next big grab on our natural resources.
>
> If anybody opposes perennials for on-the-farm energy using pyrolsis
> or some other highly-efficient method of producing energy, please
> let me know.... But FYI, directly from the new policy statement:
> "Sierra Club opposes further deployment of corn-based ethanol based
> on its extremely dubious net carbon benefits and its unresolved
> direct and indirect environmental impacts. The Club also opposes
> proposals to overuse agricultural waste and residue products (e.g.,
> corn stover) without rigorous evidence that the material being used
> is surplus to the needs of soil health and fertility."
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> On Dec 9, 2010, at 5:23 PM, Ed Woolsey wrote:
>
> > Lee:
> > No worries. I always enjoy some discussion on the
> subject. This is
> > one of those topics where you’ve always needed to follow WHO pays
> for these
> > studies, and, the strings that come attached, attached to so many
> of our
> > academics today. With most of these AQ tests there were always
> “agendas”.
> > I fear that this is one of the main reasons that the enviro
> community is so
> > skeptical of ethanol.
> > Ethanol does not have the energy (btu’s) per gallon of
> gasoline.
> > 73,000 vs 115,000. or about 30% less…so Gerald…I’m not sure how
> you would
> > drop 10% or Lee…you would drop…30-40%. 9X115,000 plus 1x73,000 for
> > E10 and 10x115,000 for straight gasoline. I’m calling BS….ok…a
> little BS.
> > Gasoline is REFORMULATED for cold weather conditions. The use
> of lighter
> > components (volatile that start easier) would lower the total
> btu’s in your
> > winter blend. Or, gasoline companies would have an economic
> incentive to
> > dump lower grade gasoline and boost it more than 10%vol.
> Perhaps we need
> > to monitor the blends more.
> > Other related issue is the use of ethanol octane…110 vs
> gasoline’s 85 or a
> > little higher. Octane is an indicator of how efficiently the
> fuel combusts.
> > Because ethanol has a higher octane you can use it in the higher
> efficiency
> > engines. (diesel) Ethanol likes 16 to 1 and the current engines
> are about 8.5
> > to 1. Ethanol is short shifted big time. Boosting the
> compression ratio for the
> > fuel results is something like 25% greater fuel efficiency. (If
> anyone’s
> > interested they can look it up or I can find it somewhere) Oh,
> and the
> > reduced efficiency leads to what???? yes...more pollutants.
> > Short story long….what we should be using is about 80%ethanol 20%
> water
> > mixture in a higher compression engine…tuned for the fuel. Then
> lets see that
> > AQ study….ethanol will smoke any fossil. (pun intended) e
> >
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