Thanks Daryl for the answer.
Susan
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the environment...
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 8:35 AM
I think the only solution is to know your food suppliers and how they raise their vegetables, fruit, meat, eggs, etc. I now buy only chicken from Faux Farms and eggs from a local high school kid with an exotic free range flock. There are a lot more good food raisers out there but for all of the respect I have for some generally good people I can still find them fill their carts from the wrong stores. Francis Thicke really has it figured out. If I wasn't so old I'd go into production myself. Hang in there, keep spreading the word, etc. Susan West has it right also. We are far too subject to control by the wealthy corporations who fund the votes they want. Just read "Third World America by Arianna Huffington, a very good read.
Daryl
On Dec 5, 2010, at 10:38 PM, Susan Temere wrote:
How do we know which ones are CAFO eggs or ham? I'll gladly participate in such a boycott. This is a great answer to the problem.
Susan
--- On Sun, 12/5/10, Wally Taylor <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
From: Wally Taylor <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the environment...
To: [log in to unmask]
Date: Sunday, December 5, 2010, 10:30 AM
"Would you eat CAFO eggs and ham? I would not eat them Sam-I-Am." Sorry. I've been reading "Green Eggs and Ham" to my grandchildren.
Wally Taylor
"Iowans boycott CAFO ham and eggs."
-----Original Message-----
From: Donna Buell <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 7:04 am
Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the environment...
I didn't realize there had been vandalism in NE Iowa, Susan. I wasn't suggesting crimes against others or against property. I was thinking more of cash register-kind of civil disobedience. Disobeying the command to be a passive consumer rather than a participating citizen.
"Iowans boycott CAFO ham and eggs."
"Iowans against high fructose corn syrup."
Personally, I never put ethanol in my car. And I feel good at the pump every single time. (And I drive a car that gets 38mpg, etc.)
It is time to move Beyond Corn. And consumer demand may be our best (only?) weapon. Although we may have an ally in the Tea Party if we can somehow kill the ethanol, oil and coal subsidies all in one swoop....
Donna
On Dec 4, 2010, at 9:26 PM, Norm West wrote:
Am not sure how far we'd get with civil disobedience, but causing a big enough ruckus over the pollution/environmental destruction that's going on to keep it in the headlines of all the media seems the only way wrongs get corrected in this country, or any other country for that matter. As many bad points as there are to CAFOs, don't think vandalism that's been going on up here in NE Iowa does anything except keep public sympathy on the side of the CAFOs. Plus there's always the risk that the vandalism will result in increased suffering of the animals in the CAFOs. Certainly no quick nor simple answer to getting the public on the environment's side instead of focused on more and more consumerism. As some famous military figure has often been quoted, "Attack, attack, attack is the best defense". Susan West
On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Donna Buell wrote:
Yes, agreed. Both parties are far more beholden to Big Ag than to the common resources of the people.
Is it time for more civil disobedience?
Donna
On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Norm West wrote:
Be interesting to ask Mr. Petty WHERE he saw the studies and what qualifications he has to analyze the data and have a different conclustion than the researchers! As you mentioned, whatever he got was probably spoon-fed to him from Farm Bureau. Doesn't seem to matter which party is in power at the State House or White House neither party is very serious about protecting our environment. Sad. Susan West
On Dec 4, 2010, at 4:08 PM, Wally Taylor wrote:
Regarding the Chesapeake Bay, I was at a recent EPC meeting when, during a break, Dave Petty, one of the EPC members, came over to where Ed Tormey and Randy Clark (DNR lawyers) and I were standing. He started talking about the "damn environmentalists" who were blaming CAFOs (chickens in that case) for the pollution of the Bay. He claimed it was the increasing human population around the Bay that was causing the problem. I said I doubted that since human waste is treated before it is discharged; animal waste is not. He claimed he had seen the studies. He probably saw the information Farm Bureau gave him. And this is a member of the EPC appointed by Vilsack and reappointed by Culver (or Patty Judge).
Wally Taylor
The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer modeling, but by
direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms.
-----Original Message-----
From: Searles, Leland <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sat, Dec 4, 2010 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the environment...
This line from the attorney, Bodine, contains a grotesque oversimplification.
It's the kind of junky statement that I expect from such a meeting and the
hand-picked presenters it has:
"are just a few examples of issues driven by 'computer modeling and inaccurate
assumptions.' "
The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer modeling, but by
direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms. Some of the
Iowa rules (antidegradation is mentioned) are based on citizen and professional
testing of water quality, not least of which occurs at major municipal drinking
water facilities.
Modeling is made necessary in many cases by absence of better data. I work with
the DNR Air Quality Bureau, and they have a rank order list of preferred forms
of data for issuing air permits to facilities. Stack testing, followed by
modeling, is second, and it is driven by knowledge of industrial through-put and
stack measurements of pollutants. Pure modeling is well down the list. The
speaker distorts the situation in Iowa, if not in other states, and
misrepresents the guidance from EPA on how to establish levels of pollution in
air and water. This is what counts as "sound science" - highly biased
misrepresentations of the realities of what regulatory agencies actually do,
often in cooperation with the regulated agencies, various organizations, and
citizen volunteers.
If the evidence of agricultural contributions to air pollution and greenhouse
gases wasn't already clear enough five to ten years ago, the research that has
been done in the last year or two puts the icing on the cake, that agricultural
air and water (including, importantly, so-called nonpoint sources) emissions of
pollution and agricultural releases of methane and other greenhouse gases are
significant. While many farm organizations prefer voluntary adoption of control
techniques, rather than legislated or regulated approaches, the evidence also is
clear that voluntary programs to reduce air toxics (ammonia, hydrogen sulfide)
and nutrients in surface waterways ARE NOT SUFFICIENT.
Most environmental lawyers do go where the money is, I think, as Wally Taylor
noted. I've been in the room trying to hammer out policy recommendations with
corporate lawyers, and they do their jobs very well: obstruct, hinder, stall,
make sideways accusations and implications, etc. It's too bad that corporations
aren't more interested in accuracy and truth. But then American culture,
economics, and politics are based on self-interest, not ethical
responsibilities. Mission statements are often subterfuges, pretty language and
little more. A musician/poet once describe such stuff as "antimatter language
designed to conceal."
Lee Searles
Air Quality Program
Iowa Environmental Council
Des Moines
________________________________
From: Iowa Discussion, Alerts and Announcements on behalf of Cindy Hildebrand
Sent: Fri 12/3/2010 10:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the
environment...
...but after reading the last paragraph in the article below, I see I was
mistaken.
Cindy
http://www.ifbf.org/article.aspx?articleID=21494
Cindy Hildebrand
[log in to unmask]
Ames, IA 50010
"Flood control dams have no relation to the cause of floods. Check dams and
terraces do not touch the cause of erosion...The practices we now call
conservation are, to a large extent, local alleviations of biotic pain. They are
necessary, but they must not be confused with cures." (Aldo Leopold)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe
from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask]
Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information:
http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider,
the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest
news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to:
[log in to unmask]
Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information:
http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to:
[log in to unmask]
Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information:
http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp
Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship
e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's
latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent
editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/
|
