Am not sure how far we'd get with civil disobedience, but causing a
big enough ruckus over the pollution/environmental destruction that's
going on to keep it in the headlines of all the media seems the only
way wrongs get corrected in this country, or any other country for
that matter. As many bad points as there are to CAFOs, don't think
vandalism that's been going on up here in NE Iowa does anything
except keep public sympathy on the side of the CAFOs. Plus there's
always the risk that the vandalism will result in increased suffering
of the animals in the CAFOs. Certainly no quick nor simple answer
to getting the public on the environment's side instead of focused on
more and more consumerism. As some famous military figure has often
been quoted, "Attack, attack, attack is the best
defense". Susan West
On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Donna Buell wrote:
> Yes, agreed. Both parties are far more beholden to Big Ag than to
> the common resources of the people.
>
> Is it time for more civil disobedience?
>
> Donna
>
>
>
> On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Norm West wrote:
>
>>
>> Be interesting to ask Mr. Petty WHERE he saw the studies and what
>> qualifications he has to analyze the data and have a different
>> conclustion than the researchers! As you mentioned, whatever he
>> got was probably spoon-fed to him from Farm Bureau. Doesn't seem
>> to matter which party is in power at the State House or White
>> House neither party is very serious about protecting our
>> environment. Sad. Susan West
>>
>>
>> On Dec 4, 2010, at 4:08 PM, Wally Taylor wrote:
>>
>>> Regarding the Chesapeake Bay, I was at a recent EPC meeting when,
>>> during a break, Dave Petty, one of the EPC members, came over to
>>> where Ed Tormey and Randy Clark (DNR lawyers) and I were
>>> standing. He started talking about the "damn environmentalists"
>>> who were blaming CAFOs (chickens in that case) for the pollution
>>> of the Bay. He claimed it was the increasing human population
>>> around the Bay that was causing the problem. I said I doubted
>>> that since human waste is treated before it is discharged; animal
>>> waste is not. He claimed he had seen the studies. He probably saw
>>> the information Farm Bureau gave him. And this is a member of the
>>> EPC appointed by Vilsack and reappointed by Culver (or Patty Judge).
>>>
>>> Wally Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>> The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer
>>> modeling, but by
>>> direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Searles, Leland <[log in to unmask]>
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Sent: Sat, Dec 4, 2010 2:16 pm
>>> Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked
>>> for the environment...
>>>
>>> This line from the attorney, Bodine, contains a grotesque
>>> oversimplification.
>>> It's the kind of junky statement that I expect from such a
>>> meeting and the
>>> hand-picked presenters it has:
>>>
>>> "are just a few examples of issues driven by 'computer modeling
>>> and inaccurate
>>> assumptions.' "
>>>
>>> The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer
>>> modeling, but by
>>> direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms.
>>> Some of the
>>> Iowa rules (antidegradation is mentioned) are based on citizen
>>> and professional
>>> testing of water quality, not least of which occurs at major
>>> municipal drinking
>>> water facilities.
>>>
>>> Modeling is made necessary in many cases by absence of better
>>> data. I work with
>>> the DNR Air Quality Bureau, and they have a rank order list of
>>> preferred forms
>>> of data for issuing air permits to facilities. Stack testing,
>>> followed by
>>> modeling, is second, and it is driven by knowledge of industrial
>>> through-put and
>>> stack measurements of pollutants. Pure modeling is well down the
>>> list. The
>>> speaker distorts the situation in Iowa, if not in other states, and
>>> misrepresents the guidance from EPA on how to establish levels of
>>> pollution in
>>> air and water. This is what counts as "sound science" - highly
>>> biased
>>> misrepresentations of the realities of what regulatory agencies
>>> actually do,
>>> often in cooperation with the regulated agencies, various
>>> organizations, and
>>> citizen volunteers.
>>>
>>> If the evidence of agricultural contributions to air pollution
>>> and greenhouse
>>> gases wasn't already clear enough five to ten years ago, the
>>> research that has
>>> been done in the last year or two puts the icing on the cake,
>>> that agricultural
>>> air and water (including, importantly, so-called nonpoint
>>> sources) emissions of
>>> pollution and agricultural releases of methane and other
>>> greenhouse gases are
>>> significant. While many farm organizations prefer voluntary
>>> adoption of control
>>> techniques, rather than legislated or regulated approaches, the
>>> evidence also is
>>> clear that voluntary programs to reduce air toxics (ammonia,
>>> hydrogen sulfide)
>>> and nutrients in surface waterways ARE NOT SUFFICIENT.
>>>
>>> Most environmental lawyers do go where the money is, I think, as
>>> Wally Taylor
>>> noted. I've been in the room trying to hammer out policy
>>> recommendations with
>>> corporate lawyers, and they do their jobs very well: obstruct,
>>> hinder, stall,
>>> make sideways accusations and implications, etc. It's too bad
>>> that corporations
>>> aren't more interested in accuracy and truth. But then American
>>> culture,
>>> economics, and politics are based on self-interest, not ethical
>>> responsibilities. Mission statements are often subterfuges,
>>> pretty language and
>>> little more. A musician/poet once describe such stuff as
>>> "antimatter language
>>> designed to conceal."
>>>
>>> Lee Searles
>>> Air Quality Program
>>> Iowa Environmental Council
>>> Des Moines
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Iowa Discussion, Alerts and Announcements on behalf of
>>> Cindy Hildebrand
>>> Sent: Fri 12/3/2010 10:06 PM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the
>>> environment...
>>>
>>>
>>> ...but after reading the last paragraph in the article below, I
>>> see I was
>>> mistaken.
>>>
>>> Cindy
>>>
>>> http://www.ifbf.org/article.aspx?articleID=21494
>>>
>>>
>>> Cindy Hildebrand
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>> Ames, IA 50010
>>>
>>> "Flood control dams have no relation to the cause of floods.
>>> Check dams and
>>> terraces do not touch the cause of erosion...The practices we now
>>> call
>>> conservation are, to a large extent, local alleviations of biotic
>>> pain. They are
>>> necessary, but they must not be confused with cures." (Aldo Leopold)
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