There's a very heated debated taking place on the Club Global Warming list
regarding Obama's climate speech. Here's a sample.--Tom
In a message dated 6/27/2013 10:28:22 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
[log in to unmask] writes:
Chris, I did not write one word of high minded rhetoric. I noted that we
need to campaign for real and specific objectives, not for vague political
platitudes glossing over reality in presidential speeches.
And I asked you to give me -specifics- from Obama's speech that are actual
concrete objectives which he laid out, that we can campaign for, right now.
You were not able to give any such specifics for one very good reason.
Obama's speech didn't contain any such specifics and was instead a bunch of
neo-liberal wiggle phrases meant purposely to be heard by the fossil fuel and
nuclear industries to reassure them that he is not changing White House
policy on fossil and nuclear fuels; including the XL pipeline.
You are letting a politician lead you by the pushing of your emotional
buttons instead of presenting you with actual policy changes.
This world is in deep environmental crisis. We do not have the luxury to
be led around by the nose anymore by Democrat presidents who are bought and
paid for by corporations.
I'm sorry to be so confrontation folks. But we have to wake the hell up
about this stuff and start getting serious about demanding real and rapid
change on the scale of Franklin Roosevelt's WW2 and New Deal mobilizations.
Obama's speech should have been the announcement that he will create a
Green New Deal program reaching the magnitude and speed of those two efforts.
But instead, his speech was merely a kowtowing to traditional planet
destroying industries, dressed up in a bunch of utterly meaningless and
incredibly deceptive flowery rhetoric.
We cannot accept any more bs from Washington DC; especially from the White
House.
Eric Brooks
On 6/27/2013 7:59 PM, Chris Krusa wrote:
If its details you want, read Al Gore’s new tome, but my belief is from my
soul. So get off your high minded rhetoric and get more in tune with
action and support . Obama’s support is very real and so good since prior
administrations.
Chris Krusa
27 Rose Ct.
Glen Carbon, IL 62034
618-288-2681 home
410-490-5024 cell
"Disclaimer: Please take notice that any communication sent to, or
received by, this account or device may be subject to disclosure pursuant to the
Illinois Freedom of Information Act."
From: Chp & Grp Global Warming Energy Chairs
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Brooks
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 8:37 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
(mailto:[log in to unmask])
Subject: Re: [GW-ACT-LEADERS] Fw: Obama's Carbon Reduction Plan "Will
Guarantee Global Warming Disaster"
With respect Chris,
Can you explain just what specific and supposedly forward thinking climate
crisis reversing strategy that you believe was mentioned in Obama's
speech, which you would like us to campaign for, and which isn't already ordered
by the courts or existing policy? And I mean specific and quantified actual
action.
Eric Brooks
On 6/27/2013 6:23 PM, Chris Krusa wrote:
Dave is right! We need to support Obama’s gutsy venture here, even if it
turns out not perfect. It’s a matter of keeping up the pressure in time.
Thanks,
Chris Krusa, PPG Illinois
27 Rose Ct.
Glen Carbon, IL 62034
618-288-2681 home
410-490-5024 cell
"Disclaimer: Please take notice that any communication sent to, or
received by, this account or device may be subject to disclosure pursuant to the
Illinois Freedom of Information Act."
From: Chp & Grp Global Warming Energy Chairs
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric Brooks
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2013 4:57 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
(mailto:[log in to unmask])
Subject: Re: [GW-ACT-LEADERS] Fw: Obama's Carbon Reduction Plan "Will
Guarantee Global Warming Disaster"
Precisely. Obama's speech was not just weak; it in fact was a flat-out
roadmap to climate disaster.
Eric Brooks
On 6/27/2013 1:31 PM, Jim Sconyers wrote:
True, but.....
Gas is no bridge. Nuclear is a disaster. Clean coal is a myth.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 3:33 PM, caroljohnson <[log in to unmask]
(mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote:
Well said! Thank you!
Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Touch
David McCoard <[log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask]) >
wrote:
Most of what I've seen in other discussions on this list regarding the
President's plan has been people blasting specific shortcomings. As Randy
says, that's easy and fun to do. But let's look at his initiative as a whole.
With a Congress that's unlikely to pass meaningful global warming measures,
he's doing what he can on his end.
Stabilizing and then reducing the GHG content of the astmosphere
sufficiently and quickly enough to avert disastrous climatic changes would require
immediate and radical steps worldwide. At the same time, people of
developing countries, with rising standards of living, understandably want the same
cars and appliances that we already have.
Simply saying that what the President, or any single country, can do by
itself, is insufficient to avert serious climatic changes is to state the
obvious. The climate change has already begun and will continue before it
stabilizes, however quickly GHG emissions can be cut.
Dismissing all efforts as insufficient won't help. What we need to do, and
what the Club is here for, is to do our part to reduce these emissions as
quickly as possible by
* raising public conciousness,
* advancing the development of clean power sources and industrial
processes,
* advancing energy efficiency in buildings, daily activities and
industry,
* encouraging more modest lifestyles and economies that support this
(e.g., bringing consumerism under control),
* pushing governments and people around the world to do the same,
* encouraging the phasing out of GHG-producing power supplies as
clean alternatives become sufficient, and
* making sure our individual lifestyles reflect these values.
Dave
____________________________________
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:15:52 -0400
From: [log in to unmask] (mailto:[log in to unmask])
Subject: Re: [GW-ACT-LEADERS] Fw: Obama's Carbon Reduction Plan "Will
Guarantee Global Warming Disaster"
To: [log in to unmask]
(mailto:[log in to unmask])
I find myself in the classic "glass half full / half empty" dilemma with
the response of the environmental movement to Obama's climate speech. The
larger picture is that we find ourselves in an overall political situation
where the Republican Party and the Tea Party have taken the wheels off the
federal government. They have implemented a strategy where if they can't
govern, no one will. They are also utterly hostile to the environment, to
dealing with climate change. Implacably so. So it is kind of unfair being
super hard on Obama, no matter how much fun some people are having doing so.
I think anytime you have someone in power addressing this issue - however
incompetently or insincere they may be - it is a victory, especially in
light of the mass media's boycott of the issue. It is a victory for the
climate aka fossil fuel resistance as McKibben puts it. I frankly think that
the environmental movement is illiterate when it comes to American politics
and the history of American social change movements. If it were not, its
responses to the speech would be much more realistic and nuanced.
Randy Cunningham
NEO Sierra Club.
On Thu, Jun 27, 2013 at 12:31 PM, CRAIG L. <[log in to unmask]
(mailto:[log in to unmask]) > wrote:
A contrary view presented to Obama's plan. Click on link to watch video.
I have also pasted the transcript below.
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
News Stories
June 27, 2013
_Obama's Carbon Reduction Plan "Will Guarantee Global Warming Disaster"
Nafeez Ahmed: Environmental activists need to redouble efforts to demand
Obama reject Keystone XL, abandon hydrofracking, and adopt tougher
emission standards
Go to story | Go to homepage_
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&)
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_2012 "Undocubus" Empowered Immigrant Communities Through Civil
Disobedience
Pt 2. In 2012, undocumented immigrants launched the "Undocubus" campaign
and used civil disobedience to challenge deportations
Go to story | Go to homepage_
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&)
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____________________________________
_
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_JAISAL NOOR, TRNN PRODUCER: Welcome to The Real News Network. I'm Jaisal
Noor in Baltimore. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_We now continue our coverage of President Obama's major address he
delivered Tuesday outlining his plans to tackle climate change. _
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32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_We are now joined by Dr. Nafeez Ahmed. He's a best-selling author,
investigative journalist, and international security scholar. He is executive
director of the Institute for Policy Research and Development and author of A
User's Guide to the Crisis of Civilization, among other books. He writes
forThe Guardian on the geopolitics of environmental, energy, and economic
crises on his Earth Insight blog. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E
546&)
_Thank you for being with us. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546
&)
_DR. NAFEEZ AHMED, DIRECTOR, INSTITUTE FOR POLICY RESEARCH AND
DEVELOPMENT: Thank you. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_NOOR: So you just wrote a piece about how Obama's new climate-change
strategy will actually guarantee global warming disaster. Can you talk about
what you're arguing? Because if you read what a lot of his supporters that
have been critical of his environmental policies say, they say this is a
sharp break from the past, what previous administrations have been doing
around climate change. What's your response? _
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_AHMED: Well, on one hand, I agree and I concede that absolutely this plan
is unprecedented in the history of the United States. It's the first time
we've had such a wide-ranging, comprehensive plan on the environment, and
in that sense it's to be welcomed. And there's a lot of great stuff in the
plan. So it would be foolish to kind of say that this isn't a huge a step
forward. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_But I think we need to have a reality check about what this plan actually
means. And the reality is is that the scientists are saying is that if you
look at the nature of the pledges that are being put on the table not
only by the United States but also by China, also by Europe, also by the U.K.
and other major powers, unfortunately they're just not good enough in terms
of avoiding the danger of climate catastrophe. And the problem is that we
have accepted in the international policymaking circuit this limit of 2
degrees Celcius as a maximum limit for safe--for, you know, what is supposed
to be the safe level of warming, and beyond that we enter the realm of
dangerous climate change. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_Now, all the models are telling us that even if Obama's plan goes ahead
with everything that it's going to have in it, that still will not be
enough to prevent us from hitting dangerous climate change within this century
and having a temperature rise of between 3 to 4 degrees Celsius at least,
according to the most conservative models looking at this scenario of
implementation of these pledges, at least. And that means once we get into that
danger realm, you're going to trigger these positive feedbacks in the
Arctic, in the Amazon rain forest, and other key ecosystems, which themselves
will lead to further warming. And that's really the danger is that once we hit
that danger zone, it's going to get worse. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC
3615173C7E546&)
_So my concern is really to look at this from a species level point of
view, is that this really is not good for humanity. We need a lot more. That's
the reality check. I mean, it's not about Obama and his character and
whether what he's doing is well intentioned or not well intentioned. I'm not
really bothered about that. What I'm worried about is: are these plans
really going to be enough? But unfortunately they're not. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927
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_NOOR: Now, his supporters say this represents progress, if nothing else.
What's your response? _
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_AHMED: Of course it is progress. I mean, you'd much rather reduce
emissions to some extent than not reduce them at all. If we didn't reduce them at
all, it would be even worse. _
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_But, again, you know, this is--when we get involved in the political
games, you know, it's the environment that's at stake. For me, as far as I'm
concerned, is: does this 17 percent cut actually deal with the issue of
stopping us from getting into the realm of dangerous climate change? It
doesn't. It doesn't do that. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_And if you actually look at it in comparison to the 1990 level, there's
only 4 percent cut, when you look at it from that perspective. So it really
isn't that much of a huge cut. It's quite a modest cut. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D3
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_So, yeah, it's a good thing that we've committed to something in the
United States, but it's just not good enough. And, you know, this is not--the
United States is clearly not alone in having pledged, you know, modest
pledges which don't go far enough. You know, this--all of the other major
powers have done the same thing. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_What--it's worth bearing in mind that the United States government under
the Obama administration did play a pretty heavy role in really effectively
sabotaging international negotiations. And most people in the environment
movement are quite aware of this, that the U.S. role in recent
negotiations in Cancun, in Copenhagen, was effectively to dilute them. And it's
prevented major powers from reaching emissions pledges that could have been a lot
more drastic, a lot more effective. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173
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_So we're in this situation where the pledges that we have are just not
going to cut it, and we are on this trajectory, even with these pledges,
getting to dangerous--a really worrying danger zone that, you know, people
like NASA's James Hansen have warned that this could lead to major positive
feedbacks, which could lead to further warming even beyond what the human
effect on the planet is. NOOR: Now, a lot of climate activists from around
the world and in the U.S. that were disappointed by the Obama
administration's approach to the UN conference of parties you referred to, they focused
on the Keystone XL pipeline and pressuring President Obama to either delay
or block that decision. Now, he broke his silence on Keystone XL in his
speech, saying he will only approve the pipeline if it does not significantly
exacerbate the problem of carbon pollution. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC
3615173C7E546&)
_Now, many of his supporters saw this as hope that he would ultimately
decide to not approve it. But others, including many Republicans, say that
because the State Department already had a review earlier this year which
concluded that the Keystone would not raise carbon pollution, that this means
that President Obama will actually in fact go ahead and approve the
Keystone XL pipeline. Can you talk more about this? _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319ED
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_AHMED: Well, I think there's a number of issues here. The first is is
really that, you know, it's pretty clear that the U.S. government has been
aware that there is massive opposition to the Keystone pipeline. And it's
worth remembering that it's actually the environment movement that has managed
to rally popular outrage a lot more effectively than other social
movements in recent years. And the Keystone pipeline has been a major sticking
point for activists. So this is clearly something the government would want to
address. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_The second point I think that is worth bearing in mind is that the
Republicans are making an interesting and valid point by noting that a lot of the
processes and planning processes that were in place to examine and decide
whether or not Keystone should happen have already happened, and they've
happened completely outside of any kind of public arena or Democratic kind
of decision-making process, you know, that we're now seeing that, you know,
the president is kind of saying that, oh, we're going to look at all of
these other issues and we still have yet to make a decision. But why is it
that we do have these documents that clearly say the decisions have been
made? There's already been investments that have been made. There's already
been--there's a very--I mean, this is--there's a long litany of documentation,
actually, which shows how entrenched the U.S. government policy is on
Keystone. So I would be wary with assuming that all of that would suddenly be
reversed. _
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_Thirdly, I think one has to assess what Obama is saying here against his
track record in relation to other issues, such as the NDAA, such as drone
strikes, such as the NSA PRISM issue. All of these issues show that Obama
is very good at mobilizing very powerful rhetoric which can be quite
convincing and in fact effectively diffuses and confuses potential opposition to
his decisions, to the Democratic Party, and so on and so forth. But in fact
what he actually does in practice can often be very, very different. And
whether that's a result of him personally or whether it's because of the
inevitable structures of power in which he's operating is, you know, a debate
that we can have, but the facts do speak for themselves that Obama often
says things that his--and his administration tends to the do the opposite,
and that often bears the stamp of his approval. I'm concerned that this could
happen again in Keystone. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_Fourthly, and my last and final point on this, really, is to look at
another element of the government's track record on this, which is the shale
gas. And, you know, we've already--President Obama already said in his
speech that, you know, clearly fracking and exploitation of shale gas and oil is
going to be a major part of this apparent environmental strategy. And this
is really, really worrying, 'cause as I point out in my
Guardianarticle--and I've documented this in more detail in my book--shale gas is not the
clean bridge fuel. Peer-reviewed scientific studies show that shale gas, in
the process of exploiting it, releases methane, which is an even more potent
greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. And because of this, the environmental
impact of shale gas can actually be even worse than conventional gas. And
according to one comprehensive study in climactic change, published in
2011, and again in 2012 a further updated study, it's even worse than coal. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA
641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_So this is really worrying for me. And the fact that the U.S. government
has already signed off on a devastating policy of promoting shale gas,
which we know is going to contribute to further greenhouse gases, really for
me makes me wonder how much we can trust the judgment of this administration
in ensuring that it doesn't back the Keystone pipeline, which we know,
according to all the best scientific evidence, is already and will contribute
immensely to greenhouse gases and also other forms of environmental
degradation. So it's pretty clear to me if you look at the government's track
record that this doesn't--it's not likely that Obama's just going to say, hey,
Keystone can go to hell. _
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_NOOR: And I wanted to ask you: what challenge does this speech and his
rhetoric in his speech pose to the same activists that we talked about that
were on the front lines committing civil disobedience, making the Keystone
XL, for example, a key issue that Obama had to address? What is their role
going to have to be if climate change is addressed in a way that will
prevent global climate disaster? _
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_AHMED: In my view, I think we have to keep the pressure up, more so than
ever before. And I think that's the tactic. I mean, arguably--and this is
perhaps a cynical perspective--but I think based on the track record of
government so far, it's not unjustified that the U.S. government and the
Obama--you know, President Obama himself, I think, are attempting to really
diffuse dissent and to really say, look, guys, you don't need to be so angry,
you don't need to be so opposed to what we're doing, you can trust us, you
can trust the president, you can trust the decisions he's going to make.
He's going to do his due diligence, 'cause he's a father, I mean, he's a
great guy, and he loves the environment, and he'll do anything for the
environment. That's the message that they're trying to give out. _
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_And the danger is that activists are going to basically say, well, you
know, we don't really need to worry so much now, because the president
himself has signed off on this amazing strategy and everything is going to be
fine. And, unfortunately, it's not going to be fine. And whether or not we
accept Obama's statements at face value--and, again, I emphasize that
whatever my personal views, I'm personally very skeptical of Obama's policies and
the way he presents them. But whatever one's view is, the issue of
personality, the issue of his intentions is not the point here. The point is that
in reality, what will the impact of these policies be? The science shows
the impact of these policies are not enough and that we are still on a
devastating trajectory with or without these current pledges we have on the
table. More needs to be done. _
(http://premiere.whatcounts.com/t?r=1664&c=922658&l=36995&ctl=16D7199:2A1FDA641B5AB1CDB544D32927F18319EDC3615173C7E546&)
_The other issue, of course, is that we need to keep up the pressure to
make sure that we don't allow the environmental movement to be diffused or
confused by these kind of reassurances and to say we do need change, we need
radical, dramatic, drastic change. These changes that are put forward in
this climate plan, there are many, many positive changes in there which
people in the environment movement can use and say, look, these are things
which are being endorsed by the government, this is the thrust of the kind of
changes that we need to see, but we need more, we need a lot more. We need a
radical systemic change in our societies, the way our economies operate,
and of course the way we do politics. But this is something that the
environment movement needs to really kind of take ownership over. _
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_NOOR: Thank you for joining us. _
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_AHMED: Thank you. _
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_NOOR: Thank you for joining us on The Real News Network._
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