I agree that realistically, social and political deer carrying capacities have to be considered. And I'm sure they will be. I just wish that biological carrying capacities were the primary consideration across the country, including Iowa. It is certainly true that people in Wisconsin have a greater tolerance for high deer numbers (and the revenue they generate). So do people in Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, someone forgot to tell the native landscapes of those states to develop greater deer tolerance as well. In one recent article, the deer situation in Pennsylvania was described as a slow-motion ecological catastrophe. A journal article (in SCIENCE, I think) reported that the native landscapes of Wisconsin, particularly in northern Wisconsin, are also in deep trouble because of too many deer. Deer research that actually made the general press indicated that unless deer numbers are significantly reduced, deer will totally eliminate wild ginseng fr om much of the eastern United States over the next several decades. Ginseng was studied because it has economic value. The response from the DNR spokesperson in the state where the ginseng research was done (not Iowa) was basically that deer and ginseng have been living together in that state for thousands of years, so don't worry, be happy. Of course he didn't mention that there were also large predators and Native Americans controlling that deer population until recently. It's attitudes (or ignorance?) like his that concern me most. I am grateful that Iowans are concerned about high deer numbers. We should be. When Iowa botanists and birders and other nature people get together, I hear plenty of concern. We all know that deer are beautiful and belong in the landscape -- it's deer overpopulation that worries us. But ecological damage is seldom even mentioned in Iowa deer articles. Cindy Cindy Hildebrand [log in to unmask] 57439 250th St. Ames, IA 50010 515-232-3807 "We passed a high Sand Bank which appeared to be Slideing in at times. Little above a Bank of Sand Stone which was high & many Birds nests in the holes. We proceded on to a large handsome prarie on the North Side where we camped." (John Ordway, Lewis and Clark Expedition) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Join us at Sierra Summit 2005. For information go to: http://www.sierrasummit2005.org/ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/