I believe you are all correct. The frame was muted by throwing dollars at the financial crisis, people don't change without a knock on the head, the D's take the enviros for granted as soon as they get into power, and I too am working and giving money to Francis, Bruce and Dave. Crapola Hence, In my area of the enviro (renewable energy) I believe the best way to increase production and decrease fossil use is to use the profit motive...or greed if you like. People respond to money, making a buck, even most D's like the idea if done correctly. ;) So, I work to try to get policy in place that will allow new small clean energy producers to get into the business. Like when we began raising soybeans, if people see their neighbor doing it and making money...well then...why can't I? But we're a stubborn lazy lot, and making this happen prior to running out of natural resources and/or money is a real question. imo - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/