Am not sure how far we'd get with civil disobedience, but causing a big enough ruckus over the pollution/environmental destruction that's going on to keep it in the headlines of all the media seems the only way wrongs get corrected in this country, or any other country for that matter.  As many bad points as there are to CAFOs, don't think vandalism that's been going on up here in NE Iowa does anything except keep public sympathy on the side of the CAFOs.  Plus there's always the risk that the vandalism will result in increased suffering of the animals in the CAFOs.   Certainly no quick nor simple answer to getting the public on the environment's side instead of focused on more and more consumerism.   As some famous military figure has often been quoted, "Attack, attack, attack is the best defense".                 Susan West

        
On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Donna Buell wrote:

Yes, agreed.  Both parties are far more beholden to Big Ag than to the common resources of the people.

Is it time for more civil disobedience?

Donna



On Dec 4, 2010, at 5:38 PM, Norm West wrote:


Be interesting to ask Mr. Petty WHERE he saw the studies and what qualifications he has to analyze the data and have a different conclustion than the researchers!   As you mentioned, whatever he got was probably spoon-fed to him from Farm Bureau.  Doesn't seem to matter which party is in power at the State House or White House neither party is very serious about protecting our environment.    Sad.           Susan West


On Dec 4, 2010, at 4:08 PM, Wally Taylor wrote:

Regarding the Chesapeake Bay, I was at a recent EPC meeting when, during a break, Dave Petty, one of the EPC members, came over to where Ed Tormey and Randy Clark (DNR lawyers) and I were standing. He started talking about the "damn environmentalists" who were blaming CAFOs (chickens in that case) for the pollution of the Bay. He claimed it was the increasing human population around the Bay that was causing the problem. I said I doubted that since human waste is treated before it is discharged; animal waste is not. He claimed he had seen the studies. He probably saw the information Farm Bureau gave him. And this is a member of the EPC appointed by Vilsack and reappointed by Culver (or Patty Judge).
 
Wally Taylor

 
The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer modeling, but by 
direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms.




-----Original Message-----
From: Searles, Leland <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Sat, Dec 4, 2010 2:16 pm
Subject: Re: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the environment...

This line from the attorney, Bodine, contains a grotesque oversimplification. 
It's the kind of junky statement that I expect from such a meeting and the 
hand-picked presenters it has:
 
"are just a few examples of issues driven by 'computer modeling and inaccurate 
assumptions.' "
 
The Chesapeake pollution issues are NOT driven by computer modeling, but by 
direct measurement of pollutants and absence of normal lifeforms. Some of the 
Iowa rules (antidegradation is mentioned) are based on citizen and professional 
testing of water quality, not least of which occurs at major municipal drinking 
water facilities.
 
Modeling is made necessary in many cases by absence of better data. I work with 
the DNR Air Quality Bureau, and they have a rank order list of preferred forms 
of data for issuing air permits to facilities. Stack testing, followed by 
modeling, is second, and it is driven by knowledge of industrial through-put and 
stack measurements of pollutants. Pure modeling is well down the list. The 
speaker distorts the situation in Iowa, if not in other states, and 
misrepresents the guidance from EPA on how to establish levels of pollution in 
air and water. This is what counts as "sound science" - highly biased 
misrepresentations of the realities of what regulatory agencies actually do, 
often in cooperation with the regulated agencies, various organizations, and 
citizen volunteers.
 
If the evidence of agricultural contributions to air pollution and greenhouse 
gases wasn't already clear enough five to ten years ago, the research that has 
been done in the last year or two puts the icing on the cake, that agricultural 
air and water (including, importantly, so-called nonpoint sources) emissions of 
pollution and agricultural releases of methane and other greenhouse gases are 
significant. While many farm organizations prefer voluntary adoption of control 
techniques, rather than legislated or regulated approaches, the evidence also is 
clear that voluntary programs to reduce air toxics (ammonia, hydrogen sulfide) 
and nutrients in surface waterways ARE NOT SUFFICIENT.
 
Most environmental lawyers do go where the money is, I think, as Wally Taylor 
noted. I've been in the room trying to hammer out policy recommendations with 
corporate lawyers, and they do their jobs very well: obstruct, hinder, stall, 
make sideways accusations and implications, etc. It's too bad that corporations 
aren't more interested in accuracy and truth. But then American culture, 
economics, and politics are based on self-interest, not ethical 
responsibilities. Mission statements are often subterfuges, pretty language and 
little more. A musician/poet once describe such stuff as "antimatter language 
designed to conceal."
 
Lee Searles
Air Quality Program
Iowa Environmental Council
Des Moines

________________________________

From: Iowa Discussion, Alerts and Announcements on behalf of Cindy Hildebrand
Sent: Fri 12/3/2010 10:06 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: I always thought an "environmental lawyer" worked for the 
environment...


...but after reading the last paragraph in the article below, I see I was 
mistaken.
 
Cindy
 
http://www.ifbf.org/article.aspx?articleID=21494
 

Cindy Hildebrand
[log in to unmask]
Ames, IA  50010

"Flood control dams have no relation to the cause of floods. Check dams and 
terraces do not touch the cause of erosion...The practices we now call 
conservation are, to a large extent, local alleviations of biotic pain. They are 
necessary, but they must not be confused with cures." (Aldo Leopold)
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