Gerald, Your experience echoes mine, when I tried e85: tremendous loss in mpg, around 30% to 40% lower than E10. Had the trade-off been mainly or entirely in the pocketbook, I would have eaten it. That loss of efficiency has to be taken into account in any consideration of ethanol emissions, along with emissions that come from transporting it here and there. Ed, I hope I don't come across as a total naysayer on ethanol. I would hope that it is truly a cleaner fuel. The comparison can't compare gallon-for-gallon with pure or E10 gas, however. It has to be done using mpg and emissions per unit of distance traveled. Jacobsen's research at Stanford showed that there was a change in specific carcinogens with a shift to ethanol, but not a change in the overall quantities of carcinogens emitted. The same was true for greenhouse gases. These emission rates were for distances traveled (fuel efficiency). If there is more recent research that shows otherwise, I want to see it. Hopefully it comes from NRC, NIH, and similar sources, as well as from the industry. Lee Leland Searles Air Quality Program Director Iowa Environmental Council 521 E. Locust St., Suite 220 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 515-244-1194 ext. 204 www.iaenvironment.org www.facebook.com/Iowa.Environmental.Council About the Iowa Environmental Council: The Iowa Environmental Council actively works in public policy to provide a safe, healthy environment for all Iowans. We focus on public education and coalition building to give Iowans a voice on issues that affect their quality of life. For more information contact the Iowa Environmental Council or visit www.iaenvironment.org. Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. Spread environmental awareness. -----Original Message----- From: Iowa Discussion, Alerts and Announcements [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of gerald neff Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:43 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: biomass, corn stover, and the new wave of synthetic biology Ethanol may be a "premium" fuel but I can speak from thousands of miles of using regular gas and gasoline enhanced with ethanol, my car goes ten percent farther on regular gasoline. Jerry Neff ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Woolsey <[log in to unmask]> To: [log in to unmask] Sent: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 13:37:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: biomass, corn stover, and the new wave of synthetic biology CH3CH2OH ...this is ethanol. There are trace amounts of aldehydes and a few aeromatics...but a very small amount. Petro contains: (Wiki) The hydrocarbons in crude oil are mostly alkanes, cycloalkanes and various aromatic hydrocarbons while the other organic compounds contain nitrogen, oxygen and sulfur, and trace amounts of metals such as iron, nickel, copper and vanadium. The exact molecular composition varies widely from formation to formation but the proportion of chemical elements vary over fairly narrow limits as follows:[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum We commonly assume that gasoline contains over 100 different chemical compounds. These vary...while gasoline is reformulated by season...using lighter chemicals (zylene,tolulene,benzene) during winter months. (These are lighter and contain less btu's/gallon than heavier hence less mpg's) So, run these two mixtures though your combustion engine and you get another major (very complex) reformulation. It seems to make common sense to me that you'd have many fewer cancer causing critters in the simple ethanol formulation than in the mess coming out of gasoline. Can we agree here? Pimental has always hated CORN production. His studies were as bias as any academic beholding to corporate or other $$$$ interests. But just because he is bias it does not mean he has no good points. Ethanol is a premium (from enviro stand point) liquid transport fuel. It needs to be produced sustainably, unlike today. We can do this if we get the incentive structure correct. This is our faults, not ethanols. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp To view the Sierra Club List Terms & Conditions, see: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/terms.asp