See my reply to Wally, which addresses some of your points. As far as religion having no place in environmental concerns, I take strong issue with that. I suggest that you read Stephen Lansing's work on the millennium-old rice irrigation system on the island of Bali, which is managed mostly through a well-established Hindu temple system. The entire, elaborate, religiously managed system nearly collapsed in the 1980s when scientific principles (the Green Revolution) were introduced (hybrid rice, mechanized ag, pesticides) to try to increase production for an export economy. Fortunately Lansing and others saw what was happening and mitigated a lot of the damage. There are any of a number of studies by my colleagues that show how local communities, informed strongly by religious values, have engaged in sustainable practices. Some of the studies come from the Amazon basin. Walter Goldschmidt did such a study in California in the 1940s, called "As You Sow." One town was fairly cohesive and locally oriented, while the other was influenced by the "religion" of the dollar. Granted that most of the studies I have in mind are not "world" religions - Christianity, Islam, and others that have fueled colonial doctrines. I also don't want to paint "native peoples" as some kind of "original environmentalists." Humans in almost all places and in almost all times, at least since the invention of the city-state, have overused their ecosystems: Maya, Zapotec, Aztec (Aztec society's collapse was speeded by the encounter with the Spanish), Easter Island, the Norse in Greenway.... Jared Diamond's book, "Collapse," is an interesting presentation of numerous well-studied examples. I'm saying that Sierra's response appears to make unsupported assumptions. You offer some of the additional information that I would require before signing onto an action alert like the one where this all started. No fan of world religions myself, I also can present counter-evidence that religious values can inform environmentally friendly practices. This really isn't a debate about "religion" as such, and if religion enters at all, it's because certain religious tenets and practices encourage environmental destruction. But not all. Leland Searles Air Quality Program Director Iowa Environmental Council 521 E. Locust St., Suite 220 Des Moines, Iowa 50309 515-244-1194 ext. 204 www.iaenvironment.org <http://www.iaenvironment.org> www.facebook.com/Iowa.Environmental.Council <http://www.facebook.com/Iowa.Environmental.Council> About the Iowa Environmental Council: The Iowa Environmental Council actively works in public policy to provide a safe, healthy environment for all Iowans. We focus on public education and coalition building to give Iowans a voice on issues that affect their quality of life. For more information contact the Iowa Environmental Council or visit www.iaenvironment.org <http://www.iaenvironment.org> . Please do not print this email unless it is absolutely necessary. Spread environmental awareness. From: Iowa Discussion, Alerts and Announcements [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phyllis Mains Sent: Friday, July 22, 2011 3:16 PM To: [log in to unmask] Subject: Re: Sierra Club Alert-Glacier Bay Leland you are misinformed about Sierra Club's "outmoded view of wilderness" The alert is not about stopping egg hunting, but about stopping activities in sensitive areas that should not be disturbed. Sadly both natives and non natives think they can plunder all species regardless of the consequences. Because there are gull eggs just outside the park boundaries within Huna Tlingit traditional territory there is no excuse to open a National Park to egg hunting. Are you willing to open the area to native egg collection just to see if it will cause harm? Natives in Izenbek National Wildlife Refuge want to have a road built through the heart of world class waterfowl habitat so they can take advantage of more oil drilling. And Please--"A carefully managed (by native religious views or otherwise) resource us is not necessarily a bad thing". Well we've seen the destructive side of religion and religion has no place in environmental matters. There is little wilderness left and humans are doing everything to exploit it for personal gain. And American tax payers paid National Park Service to assist them to successfully collect gull eggs on one of the non-park sites! Sierra Club was the original defender of wilderness and we owe what we have to those that went before us. It up to us to keep those areas protected and continue to protect wilderness for the health of the planet and future generations. Phyllis Opening Glacier Bay to egg gathering is also completely unnecessary. Just outside the park boundaries and within Huna Tlingit traditional territory are a half-dozen traditional gull egg collection sites of the tribe. In a demonstration project in 2001 and 2002 the National Park Service assisted tribal members to successfully collect gull eggs on one of these non-park sites. This proved that NPS facilitation of such non-park collection trips is a "reasonable and feasible" alternative to opening the park. Apparently Sierra Club's position is based on an outmoded view of "wilderness" that has been appropriately deconstructed by, among others, Gary Snyder, William Cronon, Jim Igoe, and many others. Humans have been using resources on most of the world's landscapes for millennia. The essential problem is to distinguish sustainable from nonsustainable practices. Is there any demonstration that native egg collection will cause harm to the gull population? That species of gull is one of the most plentiful in the Pacific Northwest. A carefully managed (by native religious views or otherwise) resource use is not necessarily a bad thing. Leland Searles - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - To unsubscribe from the IOWA-TOPICS list, send any message to: [log in to unmask] Check out our Listserv Lists support site for more information: http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp Sign up to receive Sierra Club Insider, the flagship e-newsletter. Sent out twice a month, it features the Club's latest news and activities. Subscribe and view recent editions at http://www.sierraclub.org/insider/