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Date:         Sat, 22 Jun 2013 01:45:23 GMT
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From:         "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: CONFIDENTIAL: TAR SANDS VISIT REPORT
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As noted, they are currently investing @ $25 billion/year in increasing =
tar sands extraction.  Which is, by coincidence, the same amount that wo=
uld be required for the United States to equal the French urban rail bui=
lding effort per capita (France x4.75 =3D USA). That is the investment r=
equired to "cure the addiction". Rail cars can be built as quickly as ta=
r sands capacity can be increased, after a short ramp up time to either =
add new shifts to existing factories or build new rail car factories. Go=
ing East from Alberta, it is extremely easy to add a second, or even thi=
rd track to existing rail lines. After all, we have three and four track=
s hauling coal out from the Powder River Basin of Wyoming today (which i=
s even more carbon emitting). And new rail lines are not THAT difficult =
to build on the Great Plains. As noted before, I do not see transportati=
on as the limiting factor for tar sands extraction.  Labor, northern Alb=
erta infrastructure, capital, water and natural gas are more limiting. F=
rank Chuck's report does not disagree with my previously stated observat=
ion. We should be protesting *FOR* an "American Grenelle" to limit carbo=
n emissions, rather than against Keystone XL. Curing the addiction is a =
more viable strategy than denying addicts their drug of choice. Alan   =


---------- Original Message ----------
From: Chuck Frank <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: CONFIDENTIAL: TAR SANDS VISIT REPORT
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 17:29:46 -0500

All of what you say is perceptive and accurate.  They believe that the o=
il will get out on rail if not in a pipeline and think it's stupid since=
 it will cost more and create more environmental damage than if transpor=
ted by pipeline.  And that is all true.  But I believe it was on this li=
stserv that I read an article talking about the logistical limitations o=
f shipping by rail especially in the short term.  There are only so many=
 rail cars that can be built and run on the existing rail lines and I'm =
not sure if or how many more rail lines can be built in and out of that =
area.  =

Charles E. Frank25 Lakeview TerraceHighland Park, IL  60035-5041(c) 312-=
[log in to unmask] =

On Jun 21, 2013, at 5:24 PM, Irvin Dawid <[log in to unmask]> wrote:th=
anks for sharing - and preparing such an extensive report, Chuck.I only =
saw one reference to rail: "Rail transportation is adding 250,000 bpd ca=
pacity every year recently. Rail costs $10 to $15 more per barrel vs. a =
pipeline." I am concerned that rejecting the pipeline will only cause th=
e suppliers - and the refineries, to resort to rail. A most interesting =
case occurred in southern California - refineries opted out of a pipelin=
e funding agreement to transport oil by rail instead. See Bloomberg: Ene=
rgy"Amid U.S. Oil Boom, Railroads Are Beating Pipelines in Crude Transpo=
rt"By Matthew Philips and Asjylyn LoderJune 13, 2013 Surprisingly, this =
article neglected to cover the increased safety issues associated with t=
his type of oil transport. http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-=
13/amid-u-dot-s-dot-oil-boom-railroads-are-beating-pipelines-in-crude-tr=
ansport However, E&E picked-up on it:"Is rail-bound crude oil a disaster=
 waiting to happen?"Blake Sobczak, E&E reporterPublished: Friday, May 31=
, 2013 "The Northeast has old, dilapidated infrastructure. We have negle=
cted it for decades, and now, all of a sudden, there's this renaissance =
of railroads coming back with oil," said Fadel Gheit, managing director =
and senior analyst covering the oil and gas sector at Oppenheimer & Co. =
Inc. "When you increase the traffic, you increase the chances of acciden=
ts."http://www.eenews.net/energywire/stories/1059982047 (Bakken oil is b=
eing transported via rail to NE refineries and ports, including Albany, =
N.Y.) Irvin DawidBurlingame, CA

On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Chuck Frank <[log in to unmask]> wrote:=

Last week Debbie and I  traveled to Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada to se=
e and learn about the Canadian Tar Sands mining operations.  Attached is=
 my confidential report with photos.  Please do not pass this on without=
 my permission.  Thanks.
 =

 =

 =

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 Join the conversation on 21st Century Transportation which provides the=
 infrastructure so you can walk, bike or take transit instead of having =
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drive, at http://connect.sierraclub.org/Groups/Green_Transportation
 =

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 =


 =

 Charles E. Frank
 25 Lakeview Terrace
 Highland Park, IL  60035-5041
 (c) 312-613-2204
 [log in to unmask]
 =

 =

 >
 =

 =

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 Join the conversation on 21st Century Transportation which provides the=
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 =

 To unsubscribe from the CONS-TRANS-CHAIRS-FORUM list, send any message =
to:
 [log in to unmask]
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<html><div>As noted, they are currently investing @ $25 billion/year in =
increasing tar sands extraction.&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Which =
is, by coincidence, the same amount that would be required for the Unite=
d States to equal the French urban rail building effort per capita (Fran=
ce x4.75 =3D USA). That is the investment required to "cure the addictio=
n".</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Rail cars can be built as quickly as tar =
sands capacity can be increased, after a short ramp up time to&nbsp;eith=
er&nbsp;add new shifts to existing factories or build new rail car facto=
ries.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Going East from Alberta, it is extremel=
y easy to add a second, or even third track to existing rail lines. Afte=
r all, we have three and four tracks hauling coal out from the Powder Ri=
ver Basin of Wyoming today (which is even more carbon emitting). And new=
 rail lines are not THAT difficult to build on the Great Plains.</div><d=
iv>&nbsp;</div><div>As noted before, I do not see transportation as the =
limiting factor for tar sands extraction. &nbsp;Labor, northern Alberta =
infrastructure, capital, water and natural gas are more limiting. Frank =
Chuck's report does not disagree with my previously stated observation.<=
/div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>We should be protesting *FOR* an "American Gr=
enelle" to limit carbon emissions, rather than against Keystone XL.</div=
><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Curing the addiction is a more viable strategy th=
an denying addicts their drug of choice.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Alan=
</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><br><br>--=
-------- Original Message ----------<br>From: Chuck Frank &lt;zsf@earthl=
ink.net&gt;<br>To: [log in to unmask]<br>Subje=
ct: Re: CONFIDENTIAL: TAR SANDS VISIT REPORT<br>Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 1=
7:29:46 -0500<br><br>All of what you say is perceptive and accurate. &nb=
sp;They believe that the oil will get out on rail if not in a pipeline a=
nd think it's stupid since it will cost more and create more environment=
al damage than if transported by pipeline. &nbsp;And that is all true. &=
nbsp;But I believe it was on this listserv that I read an article talkin=
g about the logistical limitations of shipping by rail especially in the=
 short term. &nbsp;There are only so many rail cars that can be built an=
d run on the existing rail lines and I'm not sure if or how many more ra=
il lines can be built in and out of that area. &nbsp;</p><div><div><br c=
lass=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">Charles E. Frank</div><div>25 Lakevie=
w Terrace</div><div>Highland Park, IL &nbsp;60035-5041</div><div>(c) 312=
-613-2204</div><div><a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
et</a></div></div><p>&nbsp;</p><div><div>On Jun 21, 2013, at 5:24 PM, Ir=
vin Dawid &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">[log in to unmask]
om</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquo=
te>thanks for sharing - and preparing such an extensive report, Chuck.<d=
iv>I only saw one reference to rail: "Rail transportation is adding 250,=
000 bpd capacity every year recently. Rail costs $10&nbsp;<div>to $15 mo=
re per barrel vs. a pipeline."</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I am concerned=
 that rejecting the pipeline will only cause the suppliers - and the ref=
ineries, to resort to rail.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>A most interestin=
g case occurred in southern California - refineries opted out of a pipel=
ine funding agreement to transport oil by rail instead.</div><div>&nbsp;=
</div><div>See Bloomberg: Energy</div><div>"Amid U.S. Oil Boom, Railroad=
s Are Beating Pipelines in Crude Transport"</div><div>By Matthew Philips=
 and Asjylyn Loder</div><div>June 13, 2013</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Su=
rprisingly, this article neglected to cover the increased safety issues =
associated with this type of oil transport.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div><=
a href=3D"http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-13/amid-u-dot-s-d=
ot-oil-boom-railroads-are-beating-pipelines-in-crude-transport">http://w=
ww.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-13/amid-u-dot-s-dot-oil-boom-railro=
ads-are-beating-pipelines-in-crude-transport</a></div><div><div>&nbsp;</=
div><div>However, E&amp;E picked-up on it:</div><div><div>"Is rail-bound=
 crude oil a disaster waiting to happen?"</div><div>Blake Sobczak, E&amp=
;E reporter</div><div>Published: Friday, May 31, 2013</div></div><div>&n=
bsp;</div><div>"The Northeast has old, dilapidated infrastructure. We ha=
ve neglected it for decades, and now, all of a sudden, there's this rena=
issance of railroads coming back with oil," said Fadel Gheit, managing d=
irector and senior analyst covering the oil and gas sector at Oppenheime=
r &amp; Co. Inc. "When you increase the traffic, you increase the chance=
s of accidents."</div><div><a href=3D"http://www.eenews.net/energywire/s=
tories/1059982047">http://www.eenews.net/energywire/stories/1059982047</=
a></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>(Bakken oil is being transported via rail =
to NE refineries and ports, including Albany, N.Y.)</div><div>&nbsp;</di=
v><div><div>Irvin Dawid</div><div>Burlingame, CA</div></div></div><br><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Chuck Fra=
nk <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]" target=3D"=
_blank">[log in to unmask]</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; p=
adding-left: 1ex;">Last week Debbie and I &nbsp;traveled to Fort McMurra=
y, Alberta, Canada to see and learn about the Canadian Tar Sands mining =
operations. &nbsp;Attached is my confidential report with photos. &nbsp;=
Please do not pass this on without my permission. &nbsp;Thanks.<br> <br>=
 <br> <br> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -=
 -<br> Join the conversation on 21st Century Transportation which provid=
es the infrastructure so you can walk, bike or take transit instead of h=
aving to drive for every trip, and have low carbon cars and fuels when y=
ou do drive, at <a href=3D"http://connect.sierraclub.org/Groups/Green_Tr=
ansportation" target=3D"_blank">http://connect.sierraclub.org/Groups/Gre=
en_Transportation</a><br> <br> To unsubscribe from the CONS-TRANS-CHAIRS=
-FORUM list, send any message to:<br> <a href=3D"mailto:CONS-TRANS-CHAIR=
[log in to unmask]">CONS-TRANS-CHAIRS-FORUM-si=
[log in to unmask]</a><br> <br> Check out our Listserv L=
ists support site for more information:<br> <a href=3D"http://www.sierra=
club.org/lists/faq.asp" target=3D"_blank">http://www.sierraclub.org/list=
s/faq.asp</a><br> <br><br> <br> Charles E. Frank<br> 25 Lakeview Terrace=
<br> Highland Park, IL &nbsp;60035-5041<br> (c) <a href=3D"tel:312-613-2=
204">312-613-2204</a><br> <a href=3D"mailto:[log in to unmask]">zsf@earth=
link.net</a><br> <br> <br> &gt;<br> <br> <br> - - - - - - - - - - - - - =
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -<br> Join the conversation on 21st =
Century Transportation which provides the infrastructure so you can walk=
, bike or take transit instead of having to drive for every trip, and ha=
ve low carbon cars and fuels when you do drive, at <a href=3D"http://con=
nect.sierraclub.org/Groups/Green_Transportation" target=3D"_blank">http:=
//connect.sierraclub.org/Groups/Green_Transportation</a><br> <br> To uns=
ubscribe from the CONS-TRANS-CHAIRS-FORUM list, send any message to:<br>=
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ank">http://www.sierraclub.org/lists/faq.asp</a><br> </blockquote></div>=
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